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Dentistry as a Business: Dr. Howard Farran DDS, MBA

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Shaun Keating CDT + Dr. Howard Farran DDS, MBA

This week we have founder and owner of Dentaltown magazine/website, podcast host of, practicing dentist in Phoenix AZ, business owner, and dental practice management lecturer Dr. Howard Farran DDS, MBA.

Dive in with us as we go over how having a strong business background can make your dental practice successful and where the best place is to earn your CE Credits. 

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Shaun Keating: Today I'm very excited to be talking with a very good friend of mine, Dr. Howard Farran from Phoenix, Arizona! He's the founder and owner of Dentaltown Magazine and also the Dentaltown website. He has the freaking biggest and baddest podcast in the dental world. He still practices dentistry and he has a thriving dental practice. I think it's called Open Dental in Phoenix. He lectures all over the world. He has an MBA and he's the shit. Dr. Farran, man what's up dude? How you doing?

Howard Farran:                  Good buddy. How are you doing? I met you and fell in love with you on Dentaltown before I even met you in the flesh. I mean I think, my gosh, you were one of the first lab people period ... I mean you have 4800 posts since 2003 and what I loved about you is most lab people are afraid of dentists. They're afraid to say, "Hey this impression sucks. I can't read your margin." Because they're afraid they're going to lose the account. And then here comes out of nowhere on Dentaltown, here's this Shawn Keating from California. You knew it had to be California. Whose balls dragged on the sidewalk when it walked, and people start posting and they started throwing their lab under a bridge saying, "Oh the lab messed it up." And you were the only one with the balls to say, "Oh my God look at that impression, I can't even read it ..."

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  ... "There's still a cotton roll in the impression. Did you take Biology? There's still blood and bugs and bacteria." And you just called it like it was. Your 5000 posts have been so informative and I've always told people that you need to have a lab man that has the balls to man up to you. To get on the phone and say, "Come on dude. Stevie Wonder could do better than this. Ray Charles could send me a better impression and he's dead." I really like that man. You shot straight from the hip and you raise everybody's crown and bridge game, whether they use your lab or someone else. You were the first lab man that stood up to most of my homies.

Shaun Keating: Oh dude that is so cool. Thank you so much for saying that man and yeah I was scared as heck when starting off. I'd lurk a lot like, they call them lurkers and we see all these guys now on Facebook and it's nothing like we had back in the wild west when we were starting off in Dentaltown the early days. But it was ... it was a neat group to be able to just fit in a little bit and I learned so much from watching and listening to all the different guys.

                                    But my biggest thing was when I met you, I think it was one of my first Dentaltown meetings in 2003 and we met at the Highadon Wacker and it was at night time and it was after the first day and I was all nervous and I walked up to you and said, "Hey I'm Shawn Keating", and you just hugged me and you were like "Shawn! You're Shawn, oh!". And I remember I was all nervous because I came from Big Laboratory and it was like "You know I'm starting my own lab and I just really appreciate letting me get on your website" and he goes "Oh Shawn you just keep doing what you're doing" and you talked to me for 10 minutes on the side and you just pumped me up and you just motivated me so much about going forward Shawn. You just keep in there, you just keep posting and so you really gave me the fire in my belly to really like ... I felt like I can be on this and especially when the freaking owner says I've got carte blanche to get on there and do what I do.

                                    It was just a great start and it forged a relationship that we've had for years now and heck I've had you a few times out to the lab and lecture. You're one of our biggest draws when we have you out here. I'm hopeful we can get with your girl and get ... we want to do like a Friday, October 13th if you're open in a couple months here.

                                    But we'll work that out but I want to get you out again because the dentist love it. Whoever has never heard of Dr. Farran and his lectures ... I've only been to a few dental lectures. I've been in a lab all my life and I've never heard Datoll. I've never really heard no one but I've heard you and I literally piss myself almost sometimes and you're very ... you're a smart dude. I'm not as smart as you and you're really smart with numbers, I mean even earlier you were talking to me about numbers. "Shawn do you do this? Yeah, this many guys it has not equals". You're really always been that way. You've got an MBA. You've got a real MBA not like ... remember that one dude, he got an MBA in the mail. You got it ... I think you got yours from Arizona or something, right?

Howard Farran:                  Oh that's right, Rodger Lavine.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, remember that? He got flamed on the internet there. He had a fake. He was touting that everywhere.

Howard Farran:                  It was Patrick Wall that busted him.

Shaun Keating: Oh man.

Howard Farran:                  Was it, yeah Pat Wall.

Shaun Keating: That's freaking crazy.

Howard Farran:                  There are two Wall brothers. They're both dentists. They're the ones who chased it down and said he doesn't have an MBA.

Shaun Keating: Oh, that guy kind of ... I remember talking to him one time at a dental show, and I kept thinking in my head "That's the dude," ... he had to take the MBA off the end of his tag line there and he did it because he was called out. You can't hide on the interweb man. They'll get you. You've got to be ... you better be legit baby. You can't be showing those jets and those limos and shit from those stock photos anymore Like a lot of these rappers and these guys do. They'll call you out instantly. You've got to have the real deal when you're in the Ferrari. It better be yours.

Howard Farran:                  Oh yeah, no doubt. Man, lecturing on Friday the 13th, that would be so damn funny. The marketing would have to be ghosts and goblins and all that but you know what? Again I just love to tell it like it is and right now we had a separate community for orthodontists, because of the nine specialists, the orthodontists were the only ones who didn't want to talk amongst low life general dentists. 

                                    So Orthotown ... if you go into Orthotown, you have to be an Orthodontist to get on. And they won't let any of their manufacturers, distributors ... like think about Ormco, they make all these brackets, close to your place in Irvine with Ker and Ormco. If all the Orthodontists are saying all the Ormco brackets are red and we wish they were blue. I mean Ormco needs to see that.

                                    When I started Dentaltown, I wanted anybody who worked full time in dentistry to get on Dentaltown because the whole value chain has to work together. The dentists would get mad because they'd say, "Well this guy's coming on and he sells something" and I'm like "Oh. So what are you? A volunteer? What? Do you do free dentistry in St. Louis? Where's your free dental homeless shelter? How come you're allowed to do $750,000.00 and take home $175,000.00? But no one else can sell anything in dentistry?". And I wanted the lab techs on there. I wanted the dental distributors, the suppliers, everybody who makes anything in dentistry, because if you took away about 500 companies, we're sitting outside on a rug chucking teeth with stuff we bought at Home Depot and the only reason we look like Star Wars and jedi knights is because 500 companies are making us some serious awesome technology. And there's a lot of technology that's coming to your lab. I noticed, CAD, from 30 years ago to today, CAD cams really changed your lab, hasn't it?

Shaun Keating: Oh, it's crazy dude. It's so freaking unbelievable. It's hard for me to embrace, and I'm an old analog guy and I'm old waxer, metal finisher and ceramics by hand but we're embracing it. And just like you got your son Ryan and your other boys involved, I've got my boys that thank God for these young kids with this stuff because I'm an old dinosaur. Our birthdays are coming up. I think I turn on August 18th, next Friday, I'm 55 and then you're on August 29th and you're 55. [crosstalk 00:07:24] So I'm older than you.

Howard Farran:                  [crosstalk 00:07:24] You are much older than I am. Obviously everyone can tell.

Shaun Keating: Hey, who's your daddy baby?

Howard Farran:                  You are much older than me.

Shaun Keating: Hey you listen to your big brother, huh?

Howard Farran:                  Oh that's right, now you're my big brother.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, and I am bigger ...

Howard Farran:                  And the President of my company, Lori Salowski, she's two weeks older than me, too, so I always introduce her as my mom.

Shaun Keating: Oh, thank God for Lori. I know her man. She's a good person, dude.

Howard Farran:                  Who's older? You or your wife Shauna?

Shaun Keating: Shannon ... Shannon is two years younger. So yeah she's two years. She's born in '64 and I'm '62 and you know our boys are two years apart, 32 and 30. It's a trip man.

Howard Farran:                  How long you been married now? How long you guys been together?

Shaun Keating: 33 years and been together 35 ... it's crazy. She was a little teenager, man. I was chasing that stuff. When I heard her name was Shannon, man ... I met her at a Halloween party. We were partying. That was back in the early '80's. This is like 1982. She was a biker chick. She had a bandana and she dressed up like a biker girl and I dressed up like a cowboy and I couldn't even grow a mustache back then. I painted in a mustache gotee. I said, "What's your name" and she goes "I'm Shannon" and I go "Well hell I'm Shawn. Shawn and Shannon that's made in heaven" and I tried to put my move on her and it took me about three months to get that move on but she was the one. I knew it when I met her and it's worked out man. It's a trip how that is and Shawn and Shannon ... it's kind of like Jack and Jill and freaking whatever else. But it works man.

Howard Farran:                  I had a patient in ... I had a patient in just yesterday and he said to me ... he goes "Yeah I'm celebrating our 63rd wedding anniversary."

Shaun Keating: Wow that's crazy.

Howard Farran:                  I said, "Man what's the secret?" and he goes "The secret is on the twenty-fifth anniversary I took her on an anniversary trip to Europe and then on the fiftieth anniversary I went back and picked her up."

Shaun Keating: That's a good one. Oh geez.

Howard Farran:                  I love it.

Shaun Keating: Yeah that's good.

Howard Farran:                  How has CAD changed dentistry for ... I mean you were ... when you started your lab ... I mean that technique started with basically the Egyptians. The lost wax technique ...

Shaun Keating: Yep.

Howard Farran:                  The Egyptians were doing that several thousand years ago. Have you pretty much quit doing the lost wax technique? I mean is it [crosstalk 00:09:32] [inaudible 00:09:33]

Shaun Keating: [crosstalk 00:09:33] Oh heck no. We still do a ton of PFM's man, over a thousand a week on just those and that's portion fused, non precious portion fused and semi, portion fused and white high noble, portion fused and yellow high noble and we still wax by hand, sprew it, invest it, cast it, burn it out, opaque it and we still do a lot of them. There's still a lot of guys doing that.

Howard Farran:                  So what percent is PFM versus CAD cam? [crosstalk 00:09:57] [inaudible 00:09:57]

Shaun Keating: [crosstalk 00:09:57] Well, we're ... we used ... I think ... and dude I'm asking you the questions here, okay? Let me ... we're about 80 percent now ... 80 CAD all ceramic and 20 percent PFM now. And it ... last time I talked to you I did your podcast a few years back, we were like at 50/50 man. It's kind of crazy that it's come to that but it's a beast but we're still always going to do that. We're always still going to be hands on, having a bunch of certified dental techs. It's like some of these other big monster companies, man, they're trying to do ... "Hey we're 95 98 percent non-human touch. It's all machines." And you know what? This is a different beast when teeth are going into your mouth and you're working with bites and everything else. You can't just have the critical accuracy that we need and the love of aesthetics that patients demand and that doctors should be demanding. You need that hands ... that soft touch of a human for sure.

                                    It's definitely here. It's not going away. I think the CAD cam and the impression taking with the scanners there, that's really kind of neat with us. We're getting more and more of that, where you know the true death of 3M and Iterros ... it's just amazing getting that stuff to us but we're excited with that. We've grown and we actually have dropped 15 to 20 people. We were well over 100 people and we're down to just over 90 ... 92 but we're doing more work and we're more profitable and it's just a little bit leaner and meaner. But it's just something that ... me going under 100 this year, I got a 25 percent almost increase from my medical insurance that I paid for everyone from day one, because I was a medium sized or large company. When you are over 100 and now I've got to go to a small company and it's like what the hell, man?

                                    I've gone leaner and meaner and then now my net is just going [inaudible 00:12:03] because I've got to pay 20 percent more premium. It's gone up to like 60, 70 grand a month. I've got to write a check each month for this medical insurance and it's not Obama. It's not nothing. It's just me taking care of ... we don't take nothing from the people's checks and every year they are like "Are you going to take something this year?". So, I don't know. It's getting renewed in November and it's like I'm still not going to do it for the employees. They don't know it yet but I just ... it's just going to be that much less we make and you know it is what it is.

                                    But dude, hey. I'd like to start off a little bit about sports. I did a little thing on Arizona there, man. Are you into the football? Are you into coyotes, diamondbacks? Tell me. What do you like in your sports in your area?

Howard Farran:                  Well I am addicted to the Arizona Cardinals ... the NFL. And I went to ASU so I like ASU. I go to games there, too, with some dentists. Big shout out to Brad and ...

Shaun Keating: Arizona ... I hear they got a great stadium ... a little partying school there. That's where all the guys and girls want to go that. Is that Arizona State or is that Arizona Univer ... they're both partying schools.

Howard Farran:                  I went to Arizona State University in Tempe and then University of Arizona's in Tucson. I went to ASU and I mean it was tough. I mean I got my MBA there and you would be walking to class and girls are literally roller skating in bikinis. It is definitely very different than the Catholic Jesuit college I went to ... Grace University in Omaha, which was generally twelve degrees below zero and I couldn't imagine the Jesuits allowing any of the girls to wear half the outfits they wear at ASU.

Shaun Keating: Oh man. That's why all my relatives ... nephews and nieces want to go out there, man. It's kind of crazy. But anyways, their Diamondbacks last night ... the Dodgers are probably the best team in baseball. There was a young kid, Jack Lamm, Dr. Grand Slam against him and he also had a solo shot earlier in the game so big win by the Diamondbacks last night against the Dodgers. But yeah, man, it's mercury or when this team's got three time champions there ... your Coyotes in ice hockey ... man, Arizona's got it going, man, and you can shoot any kind of gun out there. I love going out to the river and Haverson and all that ... you can have machine guns and all out there. You can carry them in your car, can't you and stuff? It's kind of crazy.

Howard Farran:                  We have every one of my boys. Three of my boys ... I never sold my house so all my boys still have their bedroom and their house. There's a ... how many AK47'S are in this house right now? Right now there's 4 AK47's and how many rounds of ammo? We usually have at least four thousand rounds of ammo.

Shaun Keating: Can you believe that?

Howard Farran:                  And 4 AK ... but they just love their machine guns.

Shaun Keating: That's incredible.

Howard Farran:                  And it's funny because I grew up with five sisters and played Barbie dolls until I was twelve. I'm living proof that you can't shape a man into being gay because if anybody should have been gay, it would have been me with my five sisters playing Barbie dolls. And now ... and then I had four boys and I was totally prepared to raise 4 daughters and but they ... it's just exhilarating man to walk out there and shoot off a hundred rounds of ammo and ...

Shaun Keating: It really is and the hardest thing is ...

Howard Farran:                  Blow shit up ...

Shaun Keating: Yeah and blow ... you have little gas containers that you buy them from the places that sells ammo and they are little bombs that you put up over on the hill and you shoot at those little damn things and they blow up like a nuclear explosion. I'm thinking how much was that and it's like $25.00 for that one. I mean it was worth it. It was like ... it blew half that mountain up and then ...

Howard Farran:                  What do you think about that because I just ... we just got done lecturing and I just got flew in from Australia. Ryan and I went down there and lectured in Sydney and Melbourne and you know it's almost impossible to get a weapon in Japan, or Australia or Singapore, China.

Shaun Keating: California it's tougher. You ... California is so weird here and their laws, man. You can't even ... oh it's nuts. It's crazy where you go across the border and in a couple hours and it's like free for all. It's like the wild west and it's kind of ... everyone's safe you know ... you've got everyone robbing banks and everyone just worried to death here. Over in Arizona, everyone's packing, you know? You don't fuck around because someone's going to shoot your ass. And grandma.

Howard Farran:                  I think my boys ... how many weapons does your grandma have? She probably has twenty different rifles and machine ... well she lives out on a farm. She's in her 80's and grandpa's in his 90's, right?

Shaun Keating: Good lord.

Howard Farran:                  Almost and you know somebody coming up the road there and she got scared, they don't realize she could unload 1,000 rounds of ammo from her upstory window which is like set up like a deer blind.

Shaun Keating: Oh geez.

Howard Farran:                  They wouldn't even know what they were walking into.

Shaun Keating: That's so crazy dude. I got to ...

Howard Farran:                  Well it will make you think twice about robbing a house in Kansas.

Shaun Keating: Oh hell yeah. Or ...

Howard Farran:                  This is an 80 year old grandma. I'm surprised grandma doesn't have grenades. I bet she does have grenades. And I'm serious. I'm not even ... if you can buy a grenade I bet grandma has one.

Shaun Keating: Oh that's so funny. And it's so true, man. I mean you don't ... crackheads and stuff running around breaking into homes around that neighborhood because they'd be shot like a son of a gun. That's for sure.

Howard Farran:                  Yeah.

Shaun Keating: Well hey dude, let's dental up a little bit here. Okay Howard, tell me a little bit ... tell me how you got into dentistry man. What made you get into it? Was it pops? Did you have some jacked up teeth? Tell me why you got into dentistry.

Howard Farran:                  You know, it's really easy. The love of my life to this day was my dad and you know I had five sisters at home and dad had Sonic Drive In's. They have Sonic's out in Irvine?

Shaun Keating: Oh yeah. Freaking give me a chili dog.

Howard Farran:                  And he went from one to two to three. And all my memories of my dad were at a Sonic Drive In. I mean he was there all day every day until he dropped dead and I loved it. I got to hang out with my dad and eat hamburgers and cheeseburgers and it was just great. He taught me everything I know. But my next door neighbor was Kenny Anderson, the dentist who just celebrated his 50th year anniversary and still practices Mondays and Wednesdays from six to noon. And I would go to work with my dad and he'd make hamburgers, fries, and onion rings. I'd go to work with Kenny and he'd do root canals and crowns. And back in the day, Shawn, all those dentists they had ... one of their operatories was their lab because it would just wax up and it was probably eight percent gold.

                                    If it was a woman on a front tooth, they'd know to add the porcelain facing or whatever. But I just ... man when I saw my first x-ray and realized that that went all the way through the tooth and then he was showing me look inside and I was looking inside the tooth and I went home with this experience and told my dad I'm being a dentist. He's like "No. No. No. You need a ... to get a Sonic and then the 8 years it would take you to be a dentist you could already have five Sonics." And I said, "Yeah. I know all of that but I just don't want to spend my life making french fries. I want to do them root canals and crowns. I've never worked ... you know the one thing I'm most proud of is I'll be 55 this month and I have still never worked a day in my life.

Shaun Keating: That's awesome.

Howard Farran:                  Going to Sonic with dad for ten years, to be with your dad and eating cheeseburgers and all those car hops and all the excitement ... I mean I didn't want to stay home with my sisters. That was so boring. And then being a dentist ... I mean root canals, crowns ... I mean I've never ever worked. You know and patients come in and they're holding their face, and they're in pain and you're like "I can fix that." I don't even know what it is yet but I guarantee after we take the x-rays and I've taken several hundred hours of continued education for thirty years. I've got my fellowship in AHD, my master's in AHD, my diplomat and international congress of [inaudible 00:19:37] , blah blah blah ... all of this stuff and I just feel like a fireman. And when that patient walks in the offeratory and they are on fire, to be able to just get in there and fix that, I have yet to ever trade time for money and I still haven't worked a single day in my life.

Shaun Keating: Dude. That is so good. You know when you do what you love, it's not a job, man. It's just something that you almost can't teach. You just love it. I love your passion there. So tell me on your college ... UMKC ... what is that? University Michigan Kentucky Califor ... what is it?

Howard Farran:                  University of Missouri Kansas City. So Kansas doesn't have a dental school so they're very smart business people in Kansas so they buy 30 seats a year in University of Missouri in Kansas City. New Mexico buys 7 seats and Hawaii buys 7 seats.

Shaun Keating: Wow.

Howard Farran:                  So in my class ... every class was ... majority was from Missouri, 30 were from Kansas, 7 were from New Mexico and 7 were from Hawaii. So I got ... like one of my best friends ever, Craig Syken out there in New Mexico ... if I go to Hawaii, I know Neil [inaudible 00:20:41] , Harrison Sheida ... you know I know all these Hawaiian so it was a pretty really cool class. Of course Kansas City's absolutely one of the greatest cities in America.

Shaun Keating: No doubt. I've got friends that live out there and I have a buddy that grew up there that has a dental lab out there. Man, I go out there and they've got some good beef that's for damn sure. They know how to cook it but that's unique, man. That's a really unique situation in college the way they all came together and you've got a little bit here, a little bit there, so that's different man, for sure.

                                    So how many years you practice now? You in like 27, 28, 30?

Howard Farran:                  I graduated May 11, 1987, and got my office open by September 21, 1987, so this September 21 will be 30 years.

Shaun Keating: Congratulations.

Howard Farran:                  And I really want to call that point out because May 11 ... Ryan how many days from May 11 to September 21? So many of these kids walk out of dental school and they just keep delaying. Well maybe I should just do a residency for a year or maybe I should go work for that old man for a year. You can walk around the swimming pool for five years. But do you know how you learn to swim? Just go dive in the pool. Quit ... they just keep delaying the inevitable. How many days will that take me? So I'm coming up on 30 years.

Shaun Keating: That's awesome dude. That's so crazy.

Howard Farran:                  There's no good time to have a kid. There's no good time to open up a business. There's no good time to get married. So you know what you should do? Just go do it.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. Absolutely. Shit or get off the pot as my daddy used to say. You know? [crosstalk 00:22:09] There's five kids and we only had that one bathroom. It's like good lord. So dude tell me a little bit about ... you've got a lot of dental awards, man. You still have your own practice and everything. How many days a week are you practicing? You're still in the trenches, huh? A lot of people don't think ... I always thought that people would say "Oh you know. He's got dental magazines and that and I know you lecture all over the world." We'll get to that in a second but what are you doing? Are you still practicing and how's that work?

Howard Farran:                  [crosstalk 00:22:09] That's what mine said.

                                    [00:22:39] What mainly works on the practice is you know I am usually there at least Monday but you know ... you've got ...let's just say you've got a bunch of old ladies who throw a fit if they don't see me. You know?

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  The patients that demand ... the ones that have seen me since 1987 so squeaky wheel gets the grease. I love to see my patients who have been there with me for thirty years.

Shaun Keating: That's awesome.

Howard Farran:                  And like I said, I do stuff with Dentaltown, the magazine, the website. I still lecture. I just play. I mean I really like ... Dentists are down sometimes they'll take a week off or we had one awhile back that had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands, you know? So yeah it's all good to me. I ... like people say "Man, now you're doing a podcast." Me talking to you right now, I love this.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  This isn't work.

Shaun Keating: You can tell.

Howard Farran:                  Pulling a set of wisdom teeth ... that isn't work. That's fun. Seeing your team who's been with you forever ... I just like every aspect of it.

Shaun Keating: Ah dude. I love that. I love hearing that, man. I called you the other day and we're talking and you're like "Shawn I just got in." You got in from Australia. I mean you go all over the freaking world, dude. These people are just lining up for you. I think you said you were like 18 hours, 16 hours on a plane and you're with your son and you're just getting back. You just did 20 podcasts there. You talked to all these different people but that was in Australia, huh? What the heck? You're ... Australia ... how long were you there? A week or two or a few days?

Howard Farran:                  I lectured in Sydney and Melbourne.

Shaun Keating: Oh geez. How beautiful.

Howard Farran:                  And then in between those two lectures we knocked out 13 podcasts. I really like that because like in the last 12 months ... Ryan and I and 3 of my boys ... now we've lectured in Tokyo, Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia, China, London, Paris ...

Shaun Keating: How cool.

Howard Farran:                  Glasgow, Melbourne, all over the United States and Canada ... But what I love about that is when you live in a country, you are born into most of your thoughts. You are born into what food you like, your politics, your religion, your dental. Your culture is socialized. You are born into all this stuff and you just believe it all. But when you start spending the night with dentists in different countries ... like take dental insurance ... So many American dentists think that "Well I have to do whatever the insurance says." Dude, there's 220 countries and 200 of them don't have dental insurance.

Shaun Keating: Oh geez.

Howard Farran:                  So you know, there's no dental insurance in Singapore and you're American patient just bought their iPhone for $800, they can give you $800 for a crown. But it's these self-limiting beliefs ...

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I remember when the Berlin Wall fell. I mean the Polish Dental Association flew me out like a week after the wall fell because they told me that I didn't understand that Communists would never ever pay their own body. What? Well they've had everything paid for them cradle to grave and they've never paid a penny for dental insurance or health insurance. Now the government's collapsed and now we're on our own. What are we going to do because they'll never pay for it. So I flew down there and they loaded up ... this auditorium seated like 500 people. I got there to lecture and there were like 1200 people in the auditorium that seated 500. Of course, the Communists ... if you were a man they put you in construction and military. But since dentistry didn't need any muscle, it was mostly women that were sent to be dentists. So it was mostly women. They were telling me that it was going to be horrible because no one in Poland would ever pay money for their own body. So I said okay. I pulled out $1000, ran a dental school ... I said it to all these girls ... I said, "I'll give you $1000 if I can take you right now to the oral surgery room and pull your front tooth number 8."

                                    And this was 1989. The Berlin Wall fell. Their currency wasn't even being traded. It was a complete economic collapse. So $1000 U.S. would be like winning the lottery.

Shaun Keating: I bet.

Howard Farran:                  And every girl is like "No. No. Get away from me." So finally I said to the front row how much do I have to give you to pull your front tooth? And girls ... I'd say, "What about $100,000? Obviously you'd pull it for $100,000." And they were like "No. No way." I'm like okay so you're all Polish girls and none of you will sell your front tooth for $100,000? Can you believe that Poland is not going to have dentistry because it's not paid for by the government. So most of your beliefs are self-limiting and I love going around the world to see all the people are the same but there's all these slight differences in how they make a window, what they eat for breakfast, lunch, dinner. These little variances in their dental offices, I just love to see and talk to and smell and hear because it makes you understand what are the true fundamentals of dentistry on planet Earth.

Shaun Keating: That's crazy. That's unbelievable, dude, that you go to all these different countries man. I'd be scared as a little sissy boy going in there. They're going to get me. I mean it's tough. You've got some big webos doing that especially back in that time. So tell me also a little bit about your MBA. What made you do that? I mean and you did that at Arizona State or ... but an MBA is a pretty huge thing man. It's just ... it's hard. It's ... I've looked into it. There's a lot to it but what made you do that and has it helped you?

Howard Farran:                  You know that's an excellent question, Shawn. That's just an excellent question. That was ... so I got out of school in 1987 and I went there in 1980 ... so 11 years out of school, I just thought ... my office was 10 minutes from ASU. I'm in Alton View which is a part of Phoenix, and that's next door in Tempe and it's only a ten minute drive. They had this evening MBA program. It was Monday and Wednesday nights from 6-10 and it was two courses; one from 6-8 and the other 8-10. Three trimesters for two years so it was 12 courses and they were all hard courses: managerial economics, managerial finance, marketing, HR, all this stuff, legal business law and stuff. I thought I'm just going ... I've been open a decade and I'm going to do this to just kind of you know ... growing up Catholic you know how they had those weekend retreats all the time, you know? Your mom took you to drop you off at the seminary once a year or whatever for a weekend retreat.

Shaun Keating: I don't remember that but go ahead.

Howard Farran:                  So this ... after a decade of business ... a weekend retreat. So the class size was 200 and it was very hard to get into. I think the only reason why I got accepted is because I was a dentist.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Howard Farran:                  And out of morbid curiosity they're like "What? A dentist?" And my gosh, to sit there with 200 people and just do like ... I think the first two classes were managerial economics and managerial finance. And to just sit there and have all my numbers from my today's dental office, and looking at those numbers ... I mean I'll tell you what. That was the single greatest business and reflection point in my life. Going there with 200 people and some of them were from Intel, and some were for American Airlines ... all the biggest companies ... Chase Bank and you start realizing that I don't care if you're Chase Bank, Intel, Motorola, United Airlines, business is business.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Howard Farran:                  But when you're in your tribe of dentistry, you believe all this cultural stuff but like politics, religion and culture that you just believe. But when you're sitting here with 200 people from literally 100 different industries, you realize it's all the same.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And I mean that's why I wrote my book, which has been a best seller for two years, 'Uncomplicated Business'. You only manage three things: people, time and money. A business only has three functions. You make something. You sell something. And you watch the numbers. And I thought that was very genius of you where when you started, you found your CFO from day one and she's been with you ... How many years have you been open now?

Shaun Keating: Fifteen years and that was my first hire, my most important hire, because I'm not like you. I'm not good at numbers and I knew that would be my most important thing was my CFO and to get a good one because numbers are numbers, man. You've got to watch those. And the second was like a marketing guy and I'm on my eighth one but we won't go into that right now. Now you've always been numbers. You've always crunched them. I've always listened to you and it's so important, you know? And the way you run a practice but you're right when you run any kind of business just like you're saying. It's so important. You've got to have someone that knows their numbers man because that makes all the difference [crosstalk 00:31:27] in the world.

Howard Farran:                  [crosstalk 00:31:27] Believe it or not, a single dentist listening to this podcast ... that if you walked into the office and as soon as they come out of the offeratory and they said, "Hey. Send this impression to Shawn." I would say, "Okay I will under one condition. How much money did you make on this crown? Did you net a hundred dollars? 115? 125?". They have no idea.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  They have no idea. They'll come up to you, Shawn, and say, "Well I have one hygienist and I'm thinking about adding another hygienist." I say, "Okay. Well this hygienist just did a cleaning, exam and bite wings. Did you make nine bucks or did you lose twelve?". And they say they have no idea.

Shaun Keating: It's crazy.

Howard Farran:                  It's like well how do you know if you want to go from one to two because I will show you today that every time your hygienist cleans someone, you lose fourteen bucks.

Shaun Keating: Yeah I know.

Howard Farran:                  I could tell you how many hygienists you would have to have to declare bankruptcy.

Shaun Keating: Oh I know you could.

Howard Farran:                  And so not knowing your numbers is one of the greatest sins.

Shaun Keating: It was huge. I remember listening to you because when I started, I was like in a little 2000 square foot building in Santa Ana in 2002 and I got a little SBA loan. It was like I heard you talking about it loans and this and your numbers. I went to talk to my accountant and my girl that was doing it before she became my CPA. So we got our first ... we got our little $150,000 SBA loan and they had to do the numbers and do our numbers and what we were doing.

                                    And then about a year or so later, we're looking to ... I put it on Dentaltown. We're going to get this building. 30,000 square foot building and I just remember you talking about numbers. Get your numbers. So I got my girl to you know hey let's crunch these numbers and we got loan for $1.7 million ... two SBA loans. We showed them our projections. We showed them our business model and a business plan and had that all written up. And I put my balls out there. I got like an $800,000 loan and a ... one was eight and one was nine or something like that but it was 1.7 million. I can't even do those numbers but I remember it. It was an eight year note that you have to pay it. And you know, sure enough, man, the numbers all added up.

                                    If I could do this much work and I thought I could. You build it you come. You've got to believe in it. But I remember as off of your numbers and I remember putting up pictures. You can go back in the archives and it shows Keating Dental Arts by Dr. Stewart, a local doctor who was good friends with, and he went and put it up and he goes look at these pictures because I didn't ... I wasn't even thinking of doing them. But he put them up and sure enough I started posting some other pictures of just the build out and it takes big balls.

                                    But I wouldn't have done it without the numbers and putting the numbers to paper and knowing exactly what I make on every technician, what labor is, what profit margin is, and the whole thing. And sure enough, you know, 2012 and all of our loans were paid off. We're debt free and it was like all these doctors were worried about ... you know nowadays it takes balls. It took balls back then but if you can crunch your numbers and you put your passion into it, it can work and it can happen.

                                    We did that as a lowly little dental technician and a dental lab that we borrowed 1.7 million to build out this place. And all of my equipment ... top of the line dental operatory and it's paid off. It's been paid off for 5 years and it's the bitchingest thing and I just love it. But we couldn't have done by just well I think I'll send it our here. Let's get a hygienist and let's add this. Well, if you don't do your numbers, man, and you don't have a game plan, it's not going to happen. You've got to make sure you can do that but thank you for that. That's another thing that I've kind of never really told you about. I listened to your numbers, man.

Howard Farran:                  That one point ... can I just say one point on that?

Shaun Keating: Yes sir.

Howard Farran:                  I know it's your point [inaudible 00:35:01] . You know the bottom line is these dentists will always get ... you know you're lucky if that finance bookkeeper is your spouse. You know, because divorce is they break up over three things: money, sex and finance. Any money, sex and substance abuse and so it's great if you are that twenty percent of dentists or farmers or restaurant owners, where the spouse is the one doing your books. But, in your case and my case, you have a CFO. But in dentistry, they always get an office manager and I say, "well why'd you hire her?" They say, "Well she has ten years experience in another office." Yeah that's ten years of experience of not knowing any of her numbers.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  She worked a place ten years and couldn't tell you the break even point on any procedure. And the dentist like me, who got that first hire, has brought in a bookkeeper. I'd rather bring in a bookkeeper and teach them how to be an office manager or same thing with assistants. You'll see dental assistants. Well why'd you hire her? Oh well she has ten years experience. Yeah but look at her supplies for ten years. One month they're four percent. One month they're eight percent. You don't have an ordering system and that your supplies costs are all over the board.

Shaun Keating: Absolutely.

Howard Farran:                  So she has ten years experience of complete chaos, you know and I would rather hire a $12 an hour bookkeeper and teach her how to make a temporary.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I'd rather hire a $12 hour bookkeeper and teach her how to ... but these dentists always say, "No. I'm going to hire an $18 an hour receptionist." Yes she has ten years experience in the other dental office. Well what happened to that dental office? "Oh it went bankrupt and the doctor killed himself." Oh okay. So that's your ten years experience.

Shaun Keating: Or even the dentist. They ... well I'm in the office doing my books, you know. It's almost like, unless you're really a smart guy and real good at that, I mean why don't you get someone that really ... like some of those guys you get on Dentaltown, some of those sharp CPA accountant type guys ... you know pay them. I mean it costs because it's going to come back tenfold for you and you can practice what you do best but there are just some guys that can do their books. They can be okay and I think somewhat ... I just never ... like any successful company you surround yourself with people that know and do what they do best. And I do what I do best and no, I have my faults and I know what I'm good at. I'm easy enough and don't have the ego that hey I know I can't do that. And I know I'm not going to be successful without these people surrounding me and doing what they do best.

                                    So it's important. Sometimes the doctors don't get that but going forward with these dentists out there. What do you ... you've done so much stuff. You've done LVI. You're with Misch. You've done all types of implants stuff and you've really done a lot of CE getting yourself better in the dental world. What can you recommend for some of the dentists out there right now? Oh go to Coy's? Go to Spere? Get an inclusion course here or there? What do you think is out there in this day and age that could help some of the newer, younger dentists starting out?

Howard Farran:                  Well I mean I'm a baby boomer. I'm old school. I mean the easiest dollar earned is a dollar in expenses saved. These millennials are out of their mind. I mean they can't learn anything without getting on a jet, flying across the country, staying in a five star resort, dropping $3000 for a weekend. Dentaltown has 450 of the best online CE courses in the world and they are like $18 a piece. When you fly across the country, the cab from the airport to your resort is cheaper than any of those courses online. Textbooks ... like you talk about Carl Misch, when I went out and got my fellowship at the Missions Suit, first thing I did is bought his textbook for a couple hundred bucks and read it like a novel twice.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And then when I flew out there to Pittsburgh to listen to his lecture, I mean all these people are asking questions and I'm like damn that was in the first chapter. Did you not read a page? And like Peter Dawson ... his book on occlusion. People go take an occlusion course and they'll spend $3000 on a weekend of occlusion. Dude for $150 you could have read the Bible on occlusion from Peter Dawson. So I have dentist friends. I have friends up the street from me. One of them is Jared Pope. He learned how to place implants just on YouTube.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  He would just come home every night, go to YouTube, type in dental implant surgery and watch hours of people placing implants and sinuses and bone grafts.

Shaun Keating: That's true.

Howard Farran:                  So if you have to ... Why are you dropping $4000 on a course? So I don't ... so my answer to that online CE Dentaltown.

Shaun Keating: What about do you get CE credits? Do you get CE credits with that?

Howard Farran:                  Oh yeah. Everyone of them is ADA approved, ADD approved. Shawn they send us in like three and a half hour courses and by the time we are done editing out all the bullshit, it's not even an hour.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  When you go take a online course, you've got to drive there. You've got registration. You've got all this ... it's so much noise. We edit all that out. I mean I don't think there's a single ... we have courses ... we have two twenty hour courses on Endo. One of the courses cost $1 million dollars and 5 years to film.

Shaun Keating: Oh geez.

Howard Farran:                  And after $1 million dollars and 5 years of filming, it's down to one nineteen hour course that covered every single thing that you would ever need to know in Endo. You could learn it for 100 bucks.

Shaun Keating: That's so cool.

Howard Farran:                  What does a dentist want to do? He wants to fly all the way out to all these fancy courses. You know if you want to just go travel, go take your spouse and just go travel. But, you know, if you think you have to go to Hawaii to learn how to do a root canal.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  If you think you have to stay in a $400 a night hotel to learn how to do occlusion or bone grafting ... so if you're really want to be a serious student, I would take $100 to $300 a year and I would try to do it all online or via textbook.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Howard Farran:                  And you know they just ... I mean look at some of these ... hang on one second. Can you hear me again Shawn?

Shaun Keating: Yeah you're good baby.

Howard Farran:                  Look at the last two books I read. Right here 'Cohen's Pathways of the Pulp: 11th edition' and it's 884 pages. How do you read that? I mean this whole book is 200 bucks. It's got more information on Endo than exist on the planet. And then here's another one. Karl Misch's 'Avoiding complications: Oral Plantology' by Randolph Reznick and Karl Misch and it's 886 pages. Well shit I learned more on root canals and implants reading these two books in my home, without shoes and socks on, in my favorite chair, but these millennials ... they're like well I need to fly out to a course. And I need to go drop $3000 and get some alphabet soup bullshit behind their name. You know it's to raise their self esteem but just ... Damn. Online CE if you don't want to go to Dentaltown and pay 18 bucks for a course. Just Google it on YouTube and just watch it on YouTube but get the damn textbook and ... you know Abraham Lincoln ... you know when those presidents back in the day, all of our founding fathers, do you realize that when they all went to the university or Harvard or where ... do you know how long it took at Harvard to get a law degree? Nine months.

Shaun Keating: Oh geez.

Howard Farran:                  Because you know what they taught them back then? They taught them how to go to the library and read.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Howard Farran:                  So the whole formal education for all those degrees for the first century of this country, college was one year.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  But what did Abraham Lincoln do after he left college? He went and lived in a library the rest of his life.

Shaun Keating: Can you believe it?

Howard Farran:                  You know what I mean? I mean ... and if you pan over, I'll pan over right there, can you see that Shawn?

Shaun Keating: That's a bunch of books dude. That's awesome.

Howard Farran:                  Yeah that's 1,000 and there's not one fiction book over there. I don't read fiction. I mean to me it's just a complete waste of time.

Shaun Keating: Where are the Playboys at? Do you have those hidden in the bathroom or what?

Howard Farran:                  No. I'd be sitting next to the airplane and some guy's reading Lord of the Rings.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And then after ... and then later when we start talking, he's telling me about all of these problems he's having in his business and I'm sitting here thinking you're having all these problems in your business. What the shit are you reading Lord of the Rings for?

Shaun Keating: Oh I know.

Howard Farran:                  I mean, really? Is that going to be the secret to your success? Lord of the Rings?

Shaun Keating: Yeah and that's some great advice because I ask a lot of dentists ... I mean all my podcast is I get my dentist on who kind of work with me and this and that and we don't really do vendors or anything like that. It's just hey what do you do? How do you do it? What do you do for education? What do you do for CE? And what you've got there, man ... I mean even some guys are more visual, too. They don't want to read but to see it and have someone lecture and talk through it, and they can still comprehend and get it in their noggin, in their brain there.

                                    That's a pretty neat thing and really I do that for ... I do like drumming and I put on my little iPad and I Google different drum things. Monkey see, monkey do but you need to read and I've got a lot of reading books that I've done just for marketing and just like you know ... John Wood and it's just motivational stuff. And it's so true dude. The time that guy read that Lord of the Rings and the Twin Towers and all those other books, he would have read a couple books on Endo by like Resnick and Misch and stuff. You should do that even if you only read a couple hundred pages a day at lunch time or whatever.

                                    That really does ... because you want to stay lean and mean as you're young. I just flew out to Austin and it was a great little show. It was a great little summit and lot of young guys and it was real exciting and it was real informative. But really to get it to the next level, you need to do some reading like that. It's pretty much free and it's such a great ... Dentaltown I went on there and you know ... you're talking to me the other day and was like "Shawn put your podcast because you have like the top podcast in freaking dentistry. It's up there. You're up really highly rated. It's just a really neat thing. It's such a wealth of information." I was listening to it and you had like Mark Zuckenburg's father, who's a freaking dentist. I couldn't believe that and this guy is just like a regular dude and you guys were just talking. And it's just amazing some of the people you have and what you do with your podcast.

                                    Tell me a little about your podcast. What is it about? What do you do and talk a little about Zuckenburg's dad, man. I mean what a trip that was. I mean did he give you some tips on Facebook? Is that why you're so highly rated and got like a 300,000 likes. I mean that's crazy. I've got like 5,000. I'm like kicking my heels up and I looked on your site today, trying to look at some stuff and your autobiography ... I mean you've got so much shit on you, dude. It's just awesome. I'm like I know this guy, man. That's pretty cool. But tell me a little bit about Zuckenburg. What was that like? Is he pretty cool dude or what?

Howard Farran:                  He is an amazing man and you know me and Zuckerburger ... two bald dentists who each had four children. One of his children started Facebook and one of mine went to jail. Other than that, we're just almost identical twins. But no, he did teach me a big thing on the Facebook. I've had him on the show three times and when I started my podcast, I was doing it ... I was posting a link. I would do video and even though ... anyway I would do video. I would post a link to go to the podcast on Facebook to go listen to it on iTunes or go watch it on YouTube and he said, "Howard none of these social media sites LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, they don't want you to leave the site. So upload the video." So I started uploading the video into Facebook. So now it's uploaded to Facebook. The views went from instead of having like 500 people click the link to leave Facebook and go to YouTube and I've now had ten on Facebook have 190,000 views.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. Good job.

Howard Farran:                  Because Facebook will push out Facebook video but they're not going to push out links ... if I make a link and I put your website link which is Keating Dental Laboratories, right?

Shaun Keating: Keatingdentalarts.com.

Howard Farran:                  Keating Dental Arts ... Facebook's not going to push that out because they don't anybody ... in fact on Instagram, which Facebook bought for a billion dollars, the link won't even work.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  On Facebook, at least the link would work. But on Instagram, the new rules of Instagram, the link won't even work. So ... but if you just sit there and said find me at a ... just go to Keating Dental Arts ... just Google Keating Dental Arts or whatever, then they would push that out. But they're not going to push out a link to leave Facebook. And LinkedIn just got bought by Microsoft and the rumor has it that very shortly they are going to do the same thing. They're going to start you can upload video directly to LinkedIn. But yeah. Zuckerburg is a genius guy.

                                    Another thing he said about Facebook is that so many dentists when they come in for a cleaning they just give you a toothbrush. But don't give them a toothbrush unless they check in to your dental office on Facebook.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  Because the average woman or the average person on Facebook has I think 140 friends and half of Americans are not going back to whoever they went to last time. They don't have a dentist. They say I don't have a dentist because I'm not going back to the guy I went to last time. So they don't have a dentist and now your wife checks in at the dental office and she's got 140 friends. Half her girlfriends on Facebook might not have a dentist. They say, "Oh wow. Shannon goes to Dr. Good over in Irvine. Well I need a new dentist and Shannon's my smart friend and then maybe I'll text her and say "Shannon is he good with kids? I've got two kids." So checking in was probably ... you'd think that Ed Zuckerburg would be promoting revenue for his son saying boost your this, or buy ads and this and that, and he said the best thing on Facebook doesn't even cost you money.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  Just have your patients check in on Facebook. And if you have to bribe them with a "Hey I'll give you a free Oral B toothbrush if you check in at Facebook" and all that stuff. The reason I do my podcast and the reason I do a daily show is because basically we started podcasting a year before the election and I was reading in the New York Times, the Con Mess, the L.A. Times, that radio was plummeting. I mean a year before the last election, these dentists on average have an hour commute. Well you can't commute to work and be listening to toxic radio about ISIS and North Korea and Hillary and Obama and Trump. I mean by the time you get to work, you're depressed.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And so people ... so radio is dying and all this crap about CNN and Fox News, do you realize that there is 325 million Americans and during prime time, Fox only has 3 million viewers?

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And CNN only has one and half of all America didn't even vote in this last election because the reality is voting for the President in America is like deciding if you want to die from heart disease or cancer. I mean it's like just saying well would you like to have your leg amputated above or below the knee? I mean you know it's just ... so people are doing podcasting. So if you're riding to work, and you're really crazy thing that you love the most is cooking, wouldn't you rather listening to a cooking podcast and listening to some entertaining, motivating chef telling you how to make the most rocking hot beef stroganoff? Or maybe you're into quilting.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

                                     

Howard Farran:                  Some lady from Kansas is telling you ... just pouring it out there on quilting. So we started that dental podcast daily and the reason I'm a big fan of it because of my 30 years watching dentists come out of school, and who crushes it and who fails, it's the dentist that takes 100-300 hours of CE a year are the ones that crush it.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I saw the millennials coming out of school with $350,000 student loans. They feel like they don't have the money that they see and I realize the only core competency that I had is I freaking know everyone lectures. I know everyone who's written a textbook. So if you're all that and a bag of chips in dentistry, I probably know you because you probably wrote an article for Dentaltown, since 1994. I mean I've owned Dentaltown since 1994. March of 1994 [crosstalk 00:51:08] is when I started this thing.

Shaun Keating: [crosstalk 00:51:08] Wow. That's awesome.

Howard Farran:                  Well I ... you know I've had six or eight people write an article in Dentaltown every month since 1994. We've had you in there several times. So I thought my only core competency is I can get every mover and shaker to come on my show.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And so I ... so I'm talking to them for an hour and my goal is this little millennial's got $350,000 student loans and I know if she can listen to 100 to 200 to 300 hours of information a year, good information in her head, she'll crush it.

                                    So my goal is ... say you're in Parsons, Kansas, and they only have one study club and it's the last Thursday of every month and it's always going to be one of the specialists talking. It's going to be the orthodontist you heard three times, the periodontist and the guy from State Farm Insurance and I can bring her guys who wrote Pathways ... like this book "Pathways to the Pulp" by Stephen Cohen. I had Stephen Cohen come on the show. I went though the chapters ... like Chapter 8 was written by Brad Gettelman. I had Brad Gettelman come on the show.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Howard Farran:                  I'm just trying to get her all the speakers that she's never going to get at her local study club and Salina, Kansas or Katmandu or Somalia or Ethiopia or Indonesia. And I just think it's ...

Shaun Keating: That's awesome.

Howard Farran:                  This little smartphone that Jobs made is just spreading so much information faster, easier, and lower cost. It's so damn cool.

Shaun Keating: Oh I love it, man. I got yours. I got your feed and I listen to you. I listen to a little bit of Lance Armstrong's and a little bit of Joel Osteen. I mean I love it. It's really kind of neat because I've got up half an hour plus ride each way now, you know? We moved a little bit farther away from Irvine so it's a neat thing. It's really informative. I mean you can only listen to Howard Stern so much with the Misfits and stuff. So I think the podcasts are really coming a long way and I thank you so much for all you've done for the dental industry because you're the Godfather, man. And I thank you for coming on this today giving me the time and you know. I just thank you for everything that you've done for me, too. And shit you put my mug on the cover of your magazine and every time I got on that twice, man. That's an honor like you wouldn't believe.

                                    And every time you put me on there I'd get a bunch of dentists that would learn about me and like give me a shot. So I thank you dude. I just ... you just keep rocking what you do and I think some of the advice you gave here to my listeners will be to get online with for 18 bucks. Heck, I'd do pay per view at home. We do two or three movies a night, me and Shannon. And I have like a $400 cable bill and it's like what the heck. But it's on demand and it's just neat you know. And I'd pay more if I can get the ones in the movie theaters instantly, you know but it's the same thing with education, dude.

                                    I never really thought that for this CE and flying every where and doing that, that you could do it at home. You could do it on your car drive. Hey let's do this Endo course with Buchanon and let's do this one with Canko. Let's do this from Horne. I mean how neat and you know, if you can absorb it and bring it back to work and practice it. It's kind of a neat thing. It's a great service that you're doing for dentistry. With what Dentaltown has done with the website, with the magazine, I think it's one of the most read magazines and you know, we marketed in that magazine for years. We've got to get back on it. I always have the inside back cover. We've got to get back to that and I just thank you for that. I

                                    know you've got to get going. I've got to get going but man, Dr. Farran, thank you so much. I love you man like a brother. Happy birthday. We'll get it confirmed on your ... I want a seminar out here. I want you to come out here because we have a lot of people that would love to see you just locally but I usually have people fly in to see you, too. It'd be a good thing. We can go out Friday night afterwards and I'll treat you to whatever you want and you know how we roll, baby. We do it up big and so I love you man.

Howard Farran:                  Friday, the 13th, would be so cool. That would be so epic.

Shaun Keating: Dude.

Howard Farran:                  Ghosts and goblins.

Shaun Keating: I'm telling you, you give me a quick model and impression of your teeth and I'll make you some of the best fangs or some goofy teeth and they'll fit like a glove and so we could just wear just a little bit ... not a whole lot but we could put our funky teeth in as we go. I've even got my little teeth and I'll go hey Hollywood. I've got my diamond teeth here. How's that looking?

Howard Farran:                  Love it. I wish I had a pair of those.

Shaun Keating: Dude give me an impression and send it to me. You know where I'm at and I'll set you up you know. From hillbilly Bob to Count Dracula to freaking rapper Jack whatever but no, we'll dial you in, dude. Yeah so hey. Thank you so much Dr. Farran. Anything I can do you let me know. Okay, big guy?

Howard Farran:                  Alright buddy. Love you to death. Thank you for your 5,000 posts on Dentaltown. Everyone was informative. Everyone of them was ... like say you're the first man in ... on the internet that ever was a lab man that stood up to these dentists and say raise your game dude. Send me better impressions. Don't send bloody cotton rolls. Don't blame everything on your lab and most of these dentists live in a bubble because their lab man's afraid of them. Their lab man thinks well if I call you up and tell you what I really thought of this, you'd never send me another case so for financial reasons, they just eat the remake. They just redo it for free. They don't have the balls to stand and say hey this is a shitty impression.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  You know? And thanks for getting on Dentaltown and being the first lab man who's ball drag on the sidewalk when you walk. And you were just fearless and everyone loved you for it. Everyone loved you for telling the truth about the other side of that impression. And that's what I'll always think of you. I'll always think of you that you were the first certified dental lab technician that represented the other side of the impression.

Shaun Keating: Oh man.

Howard Farran:                  Dentists are so quick to blame everybody but the man in the mirror and you were the one that stood up and said hey. Hey I'm the guy receiving this impression.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  And you would post impressions that you were receiving and like come on really?

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  Like ESPN ... what's that segment on ESPN?

Shaun Keating: Come on man.

Howard Farran:                  Come on man. And you are the come on man.

Shaun Keating: Come on man. Yeah. I'd pull up because I knew ... I'd take pictures of every impression and we'd put it on the hard drive and I'd pull it up. I remembered this case doc. Look at this impression. And I'm going to be like whoa look at this. Because of you you know ...

Howard Farran:                  You called some people out.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  You called some people out that said I tried your lab and it didn't work and you're like here's the impression and everyone's like come on man.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I mean you're a lab man not a miracle worker.

Shaun Keating: Exactly. I can do a lot but man you're going to call me out ... sometimes I remember I'd let it get to me man because I really ... I want everyone to be happy and I'm just that kind of guy ... positive guy and all that but sometimes you know you can't ... things go wrong and you know I'll feel bad and they put it up on there and it's like dude why didn't you just call us and let me try to make it better. But it just makes you stronger. It makes you better. And you know we have a thing here like every case pretend that it's going to go on Dentaltown. And all my employees and technicians, everyone knows that because you know the internet can make but it can also break you.

                                    It's a double edged sword. The good comes but also the bad so you know it's important that every time you're working on these cases, it's like going in your mother's mouth, your family's mouth, but it's going on Dentaltown. And people kind of know that we get instant feedback and we have a lot of loyal people on Dentaltown but we have some loyal haters. It's just whenever you're successful you're always going to get some of those haters out there. You're never going to kind of be able to please them no matter what. Moreso than not, we do a really great job but it's something ... it's such a neat thing and with what you've developed there and the whole community. What you've brought to dentistry, man, and it's such an honor for you to be on my show here, man. It's like I'm looking at you here fuck here's Howard Farran, man. We're just bullshitting and I'm asking the questions like I told you earlier. Oh no I get to ask you the questions. You don't ... because you're ready to Shawn tell me about this.

Howard Farran:                  You know what you've got to think of when you see the haters on social media ... the haters. You've just got to look at them and realize thank god you're not them.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I mean I always feel sorry for them. I mean how miserable are you and I don't know if it's their horrible marriage or their children or their lot in life ...

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  But some of these people they are just ... they're so toxic that they never bother me. They never bother ... you couldn't say anything that bothered me because I just figured if you're saying that you are so freaking miserable and I just want to pinch myself that I'm working next to my son.

Shaun Keating: Yeah.

Howard Farran:                  I'm happy as a lark. I love hanging out with you. I've never had ... I mean I always ... it's exhilarating just being in the same room with you. The last time I was out there you picked me up in a limo and we went out for dinner. We had so damn much fun and then you see these people out there just hating and just toxic. I just feel sorry for them. I'm just sorry.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. It's just too bad.

Howard Farran:                  Sorry you're so fucking miserable that you say stuff like that.

Shaun Keating: I know. And it's tough.

Howard Farran:                  So thank god you're not them.

Shaun Keating: I know and I do thank God every day, dude. You know what, dude, I love you man and let's hook up soon and we'll get you out here and if I can ever do anything, let me know. Shoot me a model on that upper and I'll make you some killer teeth, man. It'll be great.

Howard Farran:                  Alright man. Peace out.

Shaun Keating: Alright. Peace out. Love you baby. Bye bye.

 

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